Okay, I heard it. Hi. Hello. I am super excited today. I have my friend DJ Trehan on the line with me here and he is a amazing human first and foremost, a PGA golfer. So I would say a professional golfer on the PGA tour. Is that how you say it? That's yeah, that's that's fair enough. Yes. Okay. And a two time champion. I guess that's a thing. I was doing the research yesterday and I was like, I was looking at your stats. Yeah. And this is like a whole world. it's been like 20 years. Yeah. It's amazing. It's like a whole world that I don't really know about. Yeah. And so I went down a big rabbit hole yesterday and was like, wow, this is really interesting. You can see someone's lifetime stats and like their which I think is very strange, but I guess it would be like with the NBA, like someone signs a $40 million contract or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Our lives are lived very much in the public knowing, if you will. You know, people can look you up and like you said, they can see your stats, everything you've ever done. so, you know, while I've enjoyed my job, it certainly does take away a little bit of the privacy and the...and the enjoyment of peace, if you will, because people have access, so much more access than they may to someone who's just, you know, living a nine to five job and kind of living in their own little bubbles, so to speak. But, you know, for me, was, it was my dream to do it. So I just, you know, I knew that was kind of part of the process. And you just know that people are, you're going to be in the public eye.

And it just creates a different, you know, kind of a different perspective on things. And, you know, I've been at it 20 years or so now since I'm almost 44. And, you know, you get used to it. And if you don't get used to it, then I guess it's just something that you need to, you need to work through and learn to, you know, try to understand more deeply. But yeah, it's very much, very much in the public eye in all aspects. I thought it was really fascinating.

Jenee Halstead (02:21.75)
You interview really well and you present really well. And I think that's just a part of being, it's just the front -facing aspect of being in professional sports. I was like, dang, he could be like a pro speaker. It's really, it's awesome to see you on camera and see like that different aspect of you that I don't really know.

And the other thing that I really loved and appreciated was seeing, listening to you talk about your game. like, I love when people are masterful at their craft and just to hear the depth of like, you know, the knowledge and like you've committed your whole life to this thing. And it was, it was really beautiful to, listen to you speak about the game and. Yeah.

Well, you know, it's, it's for me, as I've continued on my journey, I've understood on a deeper level, you know, where devotion comes in to each, to my journey. And it's, I think it's helped me to understand people on a deeper level, just to meet them where they're at, because the things that we're focusing on on a daily basis and the things that are driving us and that are motivating us and are inspiring us, you know, those are the things that are meaningful to each person. And you know, golf being a very solo driven, very focused driven type activity. It takes those, those deep levels of devotion and, you truly to play in and compete at the highest level, you have to have a certain amount of understanding of yourself because if you go to a tournament, so to speak, you'll see how everyone kind of goes about their business differently. And it's very fascinating to see the different ways that success or, or or just the way that people anchor into their truth, whatever that is for them, that helps them to accelerate their process and dive into those deeper levels of their devotion, which brings the success to them. And it's amazing just to see how each soul is kind of weaving its way through their journey. And again, for me, I see it very much when I'm at a golf tournament or when I'm around other players in the golfing perspective.

Jenee Halstead (04:41.41)
But you really see kind of the general tendencies and habits and personality traits that people possess. And it's very fascinating to see these different levels. And of course you meet that in everyone in whatever their passion is pushing them towards. But with golf and any professional sport, if you're playing it out and competing at the top level, you see people that have honed their, they've done a very good job of weeding out the things that they, know are productive for them and the things that are are hindering their production and their ability to succeed. And I mean, again, just like in any any day life, you hit those little blocks in the road where you have to try to figure out a way to, you know, improve and and or let go of certain things. It's it's it's a beautiful test. And, know, so so golf for me has taught me a lot about about perseverance and about being able to shift perspectives in my approach or in my mindset and things like that. And so it's been a bit, obviously a huge part of my life. I've been playing my whole life, but it's been one of my great teachers, right? We all have, I think if we all really take a good long look at our life, we can probably identify a handful of things that have been the things that really guided us and taught us the most. And just the nature of golf and what I needed to focus on and do to achieve and get to that level. It was certainly one of my greatest teachers, one of those handful of things that really set the stage for me, so to speak, as far as creating the environment that was molding me, whether it be personality, habits, traits, the things that just are constantly weaving the...guiding you down that road of life. So it's been a great journey and it's been highs, lows, all the things just like everybody. I mean, I've had days where I wanted to just break every club in my bag and throw it in the river, the lake and just be done with it. And then there's the days of that ecstatic communion with the game where you just feel so deeply connected and the gratitude is on high and it's just all the things. So it's really beautiful because I've experienced

Jenee Halstead (07:04.808)
very much, you know, a very high level of success. And I've certainly experienced, you know, the most lowly, depressing and just downtrodden feelings that, you know, that not being successful can bring with it. So yeah, it's been, it's been beautiful. Yeah, it's amazing, like, because of the dimensionality of how I know you. So I feel like I'm kind of back it's almost like reversing and coming back in. so I met you through plant medicine and that journey. And getting to know this other part of you as we are friends. And I just find it really interesting because we've had many deep spiritual conversations.

Yeah. And so I wanted to talk a little bit. Well, I wanted to talk a lot about what brought you into plant medicine and what your journey has been like. So let's just start a little bit with kind of what brought you in. And I did find it interesting. I was watching the interview on like golf .com and you were talking about like winning the Bob Hope.

Classic in like 2008 and just being like having a party that night and just being like, okay What's next like there was never like a deep sort of? Enjoyment or fulfillment or like a moment to pause and be like, my god. This is amazing. It was just like, okay, what's the next thing? What's the next big win? What's the you know, so I don't know how you want to start in into that Well, you know golf for me was

very much exoterically motivated, you know, and it has been in my shift with my relationship with the game. And it's just because of my shift in life through plant medicine, actually, and spirituality, it's turned my perspective into that esoteric realm. you know, in 2008, when I'm winning that golf tournament, and that was my second win on the PGA Tour, you know, the whole idea of not really being able to sit back and actually just be in that moment and just...

DJ Trayhan (09:21.55)
think to yourself, well, okay, what is this showing me? What is this trying to teach me? What is, know, what am I really experiencing through this moment? It was, yeah, I was onto the next, like where's the next big check coming? you know, when's my next win coming? And it was, was very outwardly motivated, materialistically motivated. And I was giving at that time in my life, I was very much, my pleasure or my satisfaction with life was very much 100 % outside of myself whether I, I really didn't know I was that way. know, ignorance is definitely not a blissful thing. It gives you the illusion of bliss because you know, it's very easy to go, well, okay, if I'm not getting that satisfaction from my golf and I'll go do something else, I'll go out drinking with my friends or I'll go and I'll go to a party, a big dinner party and blah, know, whatever it is that you're, you know, reaching outside of yourself, so to speak to, create these little levels of satisfaction that kind of keep pushing you onto the next thing, if you will. And that's very much the way I was living my life. from there, actually, about a year and a half after that or so, I experienced my first real setback. I started to suffer from some physical ailments with my back. And from there, the frustration, the mental frustration that kind of worked in with the physical frustration just became this this kind of pool of suffering that I was constantly swimming in. And it's weird in a sense because up until that point, I hadn't felt any quote unquote resistance in my journey. I didn't feel like I could identify with any resistance. My letdowns were always so small that it was easy to just boom, know, like the next good thing was always right around the corner. There was no real delay. There was no real stall.

And I started to finally, know, as I say, you know, God was like, no, it's time to start doing some real work here in your life. And, and he's like, you know, I've given you, you know, God gave me a lot of success and a lot of joy outwardly, but I was truly searching for everything outside of myself. And I started to suffer within because I wasn't getting what I was usually used to getting without. And, and, and so this process took me quite a while. I mean, this was 2000 roughly when all this started happening to me. And I don't want to say it was happening to me. It was happening for me. at the time I felt like it was happening to me. Now I look back and see that it was happening for me. And it took me about eight or nine years and it was the summer of 2019 and I was actually at a golf tournament in Lexington, Kentucky.

And the way that I look back on life and I think, wow, God truly is amazing, because I was just having a random conversation with someone who I wasn't even like the closest of friends with, just kind of knew him through the grapevine, if you will. And he starts sharing his story about his journey. And of course, he then started speaking about how he had...sat with a plant medicine ayahuasca and I was really at first tuned into what he was saying before he even mentioned the plant medicine because I was like, wow, I kind of am relating to what he was feeling, like kind of what he's describing. So I mean, he had certainly caught my attention and I was very much intrigued by everything he was saying. And then it's like, as soon as he started describing his journey with ayahuasca and what it helping him, work through and how it was transforming him, how it transformed him, I just immediately was like an open vessel. I just was receiving everything. And there was no real resistance to anything that he was sharing with me. And I just was so intrigued. that was, yeah, July or so, maybe, yeah, July of 2019. And I was just like, my goodness, I feel so deeply called to try this out.

That's true enough. And after the season was over that December, I went to Costa Rica and, I sat with ayahuasca for the first time in December of 2019. And from there, it has been the most incredibly roller coaster, like, you know, all things, but it's been the roller coaster of that esoteric journey. just immediately, I just started to realize that I was looking in all the wrong places to try and bring comfort and peace and to help myself, if you will. And I always have felt that I was 100 % responsible for my life. wasn't ever, you know, even though I was very, you know, I guess hurting and depressed in my own way, I did truly believe that it was the root of the cause was me. And, you know, I wasn't going, I can't believe this person didn't show up for me or that didn't show up for me. I was just very, very upset and felt shame and anger and frustration with myself. so the good news was is I kind of had, I'd already realized that I needed to do something that no one was going to be able to do this for me. And immediately the medicine just showed me once like, know, as they say, like when you step behind that veil or however, I mean, everyone terms it differently, but once you kind of are able to kind of push the ego to the side a little bit or the ego itself just dissolves or kind of quiets itself a little bit for you. And I started to hear those little whispers behind, you know, that ego that had been so powerfully controlling, you know, my emotions and my thoughts and my reactions to everything. And from there, obviously from 2019 until now, I've sat with many other medicines.

And I just felt this deep connection. And I was like, this is something that can help me. And it was for the first time in my life, I wasn't determined to be like, know, instant gratification. I could, yeah, I immediately understood that this was going to be a process. And that I had to be willing to surrender into that process and put that part of myself to the side that wanted that desired immediate gratification or immediate cessation of whatever feeling that was upsetting me or triggering me or causing me to react and then have these emotions that were, quite frankly, putting me through my own little torture chamber. And so long story short, that was the beginning of it in 2019. And then ever since then, it's just been this beautiful process.

Jenee Halstead (16:18.849)
And I'm so grateful that I think the thing I'm most grateful for is that my soul just has this uncanny ability to just not care in the sense of like attachment and the willingness to step into the unknown, if you will. And, you know, I've read so many beautiful quotes by, you know, Rumi and the saints and all these beautiful enlightened.

and wonderfully spiritual beings that have graced the presence of this planet for our good and for our betterment. And the one thing that always resonated with me with their message is it's like, we have to be willing to go to the places that are unfamiliar and uncomfortable to us. Because in those places are truly the answers. That's where the growth is. Because if we just keep, you know, rewinding and then pressing play, rewinding and then pressing play, well, you're just...you're just reliving this cycle over and over and over again. you know, yeah, the wheel of karma, as they say, and it's like, unless you, you know, change direction or, or spin the wheel at a different speed, whatever, however you want to term it, it's very difficult to break these habits and these, and these identifications that we have with ourselves through whatever we've experienced in our life. So for me, I just had this, realization for me was I have to be willing to always step into something that, that, that I might that is probably going to make me uncomfortable. And it was very uncomfortable for me to sit with ayahuasca that first time. I remember putting the cup to my lips and going, what am I doing here? I just like, the only thought going through my mind, but at the same time, I just drank the ayahuasca. It tasted horrible. I swallowed it and then boom, you know? And the rest is history in the sense of I understood very quickly how important it was to be willing to receive things that are out of the norm, if you will, things that are going to contradict the beliefs that we've created for ourselves because otherwise we're just gonna keep believing the same thing, keep living the same thing. I mean, the proverbial Groundhog Day just over and over over again. I'm curious from 2019, from that moment,

Jenee Halstead (18:38.936)
to the point where you decide to use, I don't wanna say use, to sit with the medicine Ibogaine, what year was that? And can you talk a little bit about that journey and why you decided to sit with Ibogaine? Because that is a medicine that is really not for the faint of heart at all. And if some people don't know, we can talk about it a little bit, but it's a medicine that is really used a lot with people who have severe addiction. It's kind of like a last ditch effort, you know, for a lot of people that are severely addicted to heroin. And, you know, you kind of arrive at this place where you're like, well, I'm kind of dead either way. So I can go, you know, I can go work with the medicine ibogaine or so I'm just really curious what kind of brought you to that place of deciding to sit with with that medicine? know, from that time in 2019, and I sat with ibogaine in 2022, right around April or May of 2022, the first time I sat with it, I've sat with it again this year. you're correct. It is not for the faint of heart. I tell people, like, if you sit with ayahuasca, you go and regardless of how difficult the journey may be, Ayahuasca being a very feminine energy. And of course they refer to her as Mother Ayahuasca. She has, even if you have a very difficult night with the medicine, in the subsequent time after coming out of the medicine, you feel like you're being kind of guided and you have choices that need to be made. Ibogaine is very masculine. It's 100 % masculine. It's like grandfather, son, just screaming at you in the Sahara desert and there's no water around, right? So you don't get that sweetness, if you will, where the medicine is there to show you and then you go, wow. okay. I see that now. I feel that now. And you get the choice. Like, Ibogaine, the reason why I believe, and again, from my experience, why it is so effective with addicts is because it's like hitting Control -Alt -Delete on your computer. It is like that system reset.

DJTrayhan (21:01.164)
where there is no choice. Ibogain says, come to me, you sit with me, and you will not leave at, you will not leave the same soul. You will be, you know, there is no option as to whether or not you want to change it. And with whatever it does in your mind, as far as your neuroreceptors and the way that your mind and your thoughts and everything works. I mean, think about the actual addiction, right? I mean, when a heroin addict is like, I want more heroin. mean, there's the physical addiction. There's also that those mental neural pathways that have been just wired emotion, right? So ibogaine basically like, let's just call it, it just goes in and just burns those receptors, if you will, within your consciousness, your mind, however you want to term it. And so if you go to that medicine, it is going to just, it will change you. Ayahuasca says, here is some beautiful, loving, messages that I want to send to you and give you, are you willing to receive them? Yes. And so our ego, once we come out of the medicine or our mind, however you want to term it, now has to go, well, you can't unsee or unfeel what the medicine shows you. But Ayahuasca says you do have this choice now. Ibogaine just doesn't really do that. And so again, it is warrior medicine, as they say, it is a true warrior medicine.

And for me, what got me to the point of wanting to do that is again, my spiritual journey after sitting with Ayahuasca, I just started becoming so much more esoterically driven and I wanted to connect more deeply with my real self, which I felt was my soul and less with these kind of ego driven things of I want more money, I want more success, I want more stuff, I want more this, I want more that. I just, I felt.

Like that was just a waste of time. It became more of a waste of time for me. And I wanted to live in the world, but be not of the world. As the saints say, they're like, you you're here, you have a purpose, but you need to be unattached in your ways of saying like, what has meant for me is going to come to me. May I accept it without attachment so that I can, you know, kind of flow more freely in life instead of having these needs and these wants that if I don't quote unquote get them.

DJ Trayhan (23:22.284)
are going to take my peace or my joy or my ability to just kind of just be in the moment and not have these needs and these expectations that have to be met. So, sorry to interrupt. No, no, please. So even though you'd been on your ayahuasca journey for a while, you still, you were feeling still this like sort of deep hunger or deep like - To die before you die.

So just or just a desire to to know yourself better. Yeah, to connect more deeply. I'm not saying that ayahuasca didn't help me connect. Yeah. But it's like I just I remember it was actually when I was drinking ayahuasca for the first time, a girl who was a facilitator there, a random conversation was happening with about four five of us in between ceremonies. And and she spoke about her experience with Ibogaine. And and she said, you know, it's not for me. She goes, it was pure masculine energy. And I could just tell by her energy that she was very much into, her soul was at a place of just the sweetness. It was searching for that feminine and that sweetness. And so whatever her journey looked like, she felt deeply called to work with medicines that kind of, you know, were weaving more than just like hammering home a path. But she had sat with that medicine. So it obviously had profoundly affected her, but she said, you know, no, I mean, I would never sit with it again.

It was just such an intense and such a masculine presence. I just didn't feel like there was any love there, so to speak. And that's okay, right? That was her perception. That was the way she received the medicine. But for some reason, it struck me so profoundly how she talked about that masculine, just like that rah -rah energy, if you will of what the experience was like for her. And so that planted the seed in my mind right there in 2019. And sure enough, mean, the way medicine works, always, am a true believer that regardless of when you find it or when you hear about it, like when you actually sit with it, if and when you actually sit with it, it's perfectly timed. I mean, there's the way the divine and the universe and the plan works. And, you know, it took me two and a half, it took me almost two and a half years to finally make the decision to sit with the medicine. So I had to experience two and a half more years of just going through my process and going through my journey. I sat with ayahuasca and also psilocybin and some other medicines prior to actually sitting with ibogaine. But I can easily say that no medicine has affected me more on a more deep and profound level than ibogaine.

But for me, was just this, it was like that seed was planted and it just was, you know, and it's like, was slowly being watered over that almost two and a half year timeframe. And then when the time was right, it was right. It was ironic. But when I, when I sat, I knew how profound it, I really had the sense of how profound it was going to be, but I was more at peace with sitting with Ibogaine, Iboga or Ibogaine, then I was, when I putting that first cup of Ayahuasca to my lips. and so.

You know, it was perfect timing for me, but it did just completely shatter me. tell people, I'm like, the idea of the Phoenix, know, mean, iboga is the medicine that will burn you to the ground and then you rise from the ashes that are left. So yes, I mean, it is a deep commitment to letting go. And that's really what it boils down to. Whatever letting go is going to look and feel like for you.

And I was at a place and when I finally sat with it where I just was willing to let go, know, my career was still in, you know, craziness. you know, my life was in this like hurt feeling like we've talked about this at dinner one night. Like I felt like I was in this just ultimate purgatory and I wasn't, I wasn't at the bottom, but I wasn't out. was like, I was just in it and I was just couldn't figure anything out. And I was just in this state of like, confused flux. And so it just felt right finally. And so I sat with you and I'm telling you, I I told you and I've told Philippe as well that I was sitting on the beach in Mexico and looking out at the water. And it was like the only thing that I could identify with was the air coming in and out of my lungs. Like nothing else felt real. Everything was non-existent.

DJ Trayhan (27:52.43)
And the only thought that came to my mind because of the fear that was coming up from the feeling I was experiencing of that just kind of nothingness, if you will, was what have I done? What have I done? What have I done? What have I done? So there's that part of my ego that was just absolutely just devastated, right? And my mind was now just completely in this like incredibly just, like I said, burnt, like my everything was just burnt.

And I hadn't started putting the pieces together yet because it was the morning after the medicine and I was just just so deeply profoundly affected by it. And it was it was the darkest day of my life, you know, and and and and that darkness lasted for a while after. And but once the darkness started to dissipate, if you will, and it started to to transmute, I was I was the light that that replaced it was a piece and just an acceptance that I don't think I'd ever felt. And it didn't mean that my life was like all of a sudden, hey, my career is back to being great. No, I mean, was still going through, I'm still going through it. But my ability to receive and accept and just, and see things from a more deep spiritual level has been unparalleled since sitting with that medicine. But yes, I mean, you need to be willing to really die before you die, so to speak, as many people say, right? Like if you can die, if you can be alive and feel like you like in the body still, my soul is still in contact with my body and my mind and my consciousness. And it's like, but again, this, this is my journey. And it's like, you know, I would never, you know, you know, be the proverbial preacher to walk around and tell everyone sit with ibogaine and it's going to be, it's going to save you. No, I mean, if you're, if you are meant to find your way to a medicine like that.

You most certainly, certainly will. And those that don't find their way to it, even if they know about it, it's because it just was not for you in this incarnation. Exactly. Yeah. So it's a very, it's a very beautiful process in that way, because the old DJ would have had an experience like that. And then once I started to feel the sweetness, if you will, which I didn't think would ever come as bad as I felt after doing it, I would have wanted to just like grab a microphone and just start preaching it. But I knew that it was, I knew that it was so much deeper than that and when I feel called to share my story, I do, but that's not a story you really share too often because you have to feel their energy and it's a very deep, deep process. So, as they say, no need to share when you have just no, it won't be received. just doesn't do you or them any good. Yeah. No, just falling on deaf ears. Correct. Yes.

Yeah, I mean, thank you so much for sharing that. It's like, you know, and I know I know you sat with it again recently, and I know a little bit about that journey. And I really do believe I'm a firm, firm believer that at least for me and the people that I know in my life that like, I could not fully heal my trauma until I started working with plant medicines. And I had done like every training you can imagine. I was like a practitioner in this and that and energy healing. And I studied with several great witches. I've been on this journey with esoterics and mysticism and healing for 15 years.

And I really feel like I was just spinning my ego in some fashion. Like when I look back at it now, it was just like another, there's just always another loophole or another inversion. I just couldn't ever really get myself to the place of like truly healing. And I felt like I had been, what I realized with our beautiful friend, 5-MeO- DMT, was that I felt as if I had been abandoned by God or had been cut off from source. And it was quite possibly that like, you know, these upper chakras were actually, you know, closed because I was closed off to source. And I've, you know, I've done a lot of work and a lot of training on opening those, but it wasn't Intel sitting with 5-Meo-DMT that

Jenee Halstead (32:30.958)
I realized how perfect and beautiful I was and that I was absolutely 100 % so loved. So I, and I think I've heard you talk about that as well, about, you know, being on your spiritual, you know, your spiritual ride, but not fully like really having the healing until you started working with plant medicines.

Very much so. I again, I think that that's a testament to whatever we've experienced in our journey. And then the identifications that are that are and the habits and our thought patterns, and all that just boils down into that big nutshell, as you just said, of the ego and that ego is one strong, strong, strong force in each and every one of our journeys. And I never realized how strong it was affecting me and controlling me until I sat with plant medicine and I was able, because again, the plant medicine, what it did for me was it just said, hey, ego, know, I'm push you over here for a minute and we're gonna work with the stuff that you've been blocking, you know, DJ, from being able to see and feel.

And it's very, very difficult because once that mind is identified with something and it's very, very controlling over us, whether it creates physical habits, mental habits, whatever these proverbial cycles, as you said, that you just keep, no matter what you're doing, you just can't seem to break that cycle, break that cycle, break that cycle.

It just goes to show you the true power of our ego and our identification with it and what it creates inside of us and how we feel about ourselves and how we perceive ourselves. looking back, when you describe your journey, I'm thinking, well, all of that just led up to that moment when you sat with 5-MeO. All that work that you had done is what built the foundation to allow you to even be willing to
receive and sit with the medicine. 15 years ago, somebody had said, hey man, let's blow the doors off that problem you got. Let's smoke some 5-MeO-DMT. You'd have been like, no. Again, it all worked perfectly. All that work and all that love that you had given yourself leading up to that moment of sitting with that medicine was what prepared you for that moment so that you were willing to step into that unknown, unfamiliar space.

And that's really what it boils down to. So even though you may have not felt the love and even though I know I didn't feel the love, we were loving ourselves, but we were so caught up in our ego and our wounds and our identifications that we just weren't able to clearly see and feel the love that we were actually giving ourselves. And I agree with you 100%, the beauty of the medicine is that it somehow kind of just quiets that volume down just enough or very much so enough where you can finally feel this beautiful divine essence that you are. You know, I mean, as they say in the Bible and every spiritual text, you know, we are created from love and we are love. And everything in between that is the journey. Everything that we feel separates us from that is the journey. So we must honor it. But ultimately the quest or the challenge, the purpose of life in my opinion, personally, I can't speak for anyone but myself, is to dissolve all those parts of ourselves that are identifying with anything other than the fact that we are love. mean, it is like, and just thinking about it, even if you can't like snap your fingers and be that and do that in a moment, just the thought of it is enough to make me want to climb the highest mountain and swim across the sea and just accept the things that are coming to me now with more gratitude and more grace and more surrender. And I don't see the things that are coming to me anymore that don't feel good as me being tortured by the divine, if you will. see it as an opportunity for growth. this is coming to me for a reason, karmically. I must accept it, I must welcome it because in it and through it is that...

DJ Trayhan (36:59.982)
love and liberation that I think we're all ultimately searching for, whether we're completely aware of it or even if you have no clue and you're completely lost, well then it's right where you're supposed to be, but it's just how much can you accept where you are in each moment? And for you, it took that long. For me, it took like almost 10 years of just going through these mental and physical just craziness in my life.

And then bam, 2019, almost 10 years after I was in my prolonged state of feeling all this resistance and crunchiness and just, I call it the, and here and there I was. And yes, in 5-MeO, I actually, the first time I sat with 5-MeO was the day before I did Ibogain. And I remember coming out of that first 5-MeO journey and the...my third eye, like I could feel the light. It was the brightest, most beautiful, most divine light. It was just like beaming into my third eye when I was in the journey. And I just was, when I came out of that medicine, I just was speechless, right? I felt God, like I had, yes, no words. I couldn't, I looked up at, I looked up at the sky and all I felt and all I saw was just God.

And I'd never, I I grew up in the Catholic church, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. And I'd grown up with God my whole life in one shape or form. And even though I had gone away from my spirituality completely, I mean, I hadn't gone to church in years, all that stuff. I just had never felt the presence of God more in my life. And I didn't, nothing needed to be said. It was this feeling of just grace and love and beauty that I had never, ever, ever felt. And it was just miraculous.

This is what I find so life changing about plant medicines and why I believe so much in them is that we're so disconnected. know, it's like our egos protect us and it's like we have to honor them, you know, for what they do to keep us alive. And at the same time, like we've come so far from being disconnected from nature. Like Carl, there's a great Carl Jung quote that's like,

Jenee Halstead (39:21.056)
The the minute that man sort of got lost was when he disconnected his psyche from nature. I'm you know, it's he says it beautifully and eloquently but it's really that like we are at this especially now at this real crux in humanity where we're like, I mean we're literally like merging with with technology, you know, whether or not whether we realize it or not. We are really you know there and then you get to go sit with something like the Madre with Mother Aya or, you know, with Bufo or one of the great or even with, you know, fungi with the psilocybin and you get to tap into the true consciousness of the planet and you get to tap into the universe and you start like I have conversations now constantly all the time with like the trees outside. I have more conversations with nature.

At this point, like my dog and I were just like, boom, you know, and that's like all because of plant medicines. You know, the first time I sat with Aya, I had no idea what Aya was. And I, you know, when the second cup came on and started coming on, I was outside. I went outside the Maloka because I was like, I think everybody's getting up to throw up. I think should I be doing that? Was so like I had no idea what was going on You know in Brazil and like all these people are getting up to ralph and so I step outside and I like grab onto this tree and like all of a sudden I feel this power like coming up under my feet and coming up into my body and it's the most it's like a train and I can't even like figure out what's going on. I'm just holding onto this tree and I look at this tree and all of sudden the tree is like, the tree is like sacred geometry. And then I look out into the jungle and all of a sudden the jungle is like, and all of a sudden I'm seeing the world as it really is. And this is not, know, anyone I think that really sits with plant medicine can tell you it's, no, this isn't your imagination. This is reality.

Jenee Halstead (41:35.234)
Yeah, interconnectedness. Yeah, and it's like, was so like for me, it was the first time in my life. I always thought I was like connected with the planet and was like to feel the actual force field of what is running through us. And that's the same with with like 5-MeO to the flash of love that you feel. You know, it's like, I think. It's so profound, the love of whatever it is that's created everything is so big, you would implode in a second. But to just get a little bit of that love is so profound. It's enough to like, know, there's no words to describe it, but it's enough to just melt you into the fabric.

Yeah, that's like, and that's the you know, and that's like a tiny little bit. That's a tiny little molecule. Yeah, it's you can't your mind cannot comprehend. Yeah, yeah, the magnitude, the sheer magnitude. You know, many of the saints, they say you need the eyes, you need the right kind of eyes to see God, because if you're not ready to see God, you can't you know, if you it would it would, so to speak, it would kill you so to speak, right everyday. So when you're ready, you can experience that, but that's the degree, like how much love is there? So much that you can't even imagine. And how much of that are most people blocked off to? The vast majority of it, myself included. And to have, like you said, to just feel, as Rumi says, the drop, become the ocean. that little bit that 5-MeO shows you, or even Mother Ayahuasca or psilocybin, when you finally see things for what they really are, that's the drop. And it's like, and it just takes that one drop and that's it, right? And the journey really begins. But that goes back to what I was saying earlier about the willingness to die before you die. Now to the degree that you die before you die, it's whatever is meant for each soul on their journey. But if you can honestly say that you're willing to step into that space and to create this new identity, if you will, or this new understanding or receive a new understanding. You know, for the longest time, I obviously wasn't willing to do that. I thought, as I said, I was exoterically driven. I can figure this out. I can, I can find the answer. The answer is out there somewhere. And I know my friends out there, the answer is already within you. And I never looked within myself. Yeah. And plant medicine said, it's time to start going within. Yep. And so for five years now, almost, I've been going within and not without. And I am more grateful for that than anything in my entire journey so far to this point, because I know that there's nothing out there in this world that is going to satisfy my soul, because my soul doesn't know what the, you your soul is that beautiful, loving, energetic spark that you've been created with. And then the consciousness, the ego, all those things are just the, you know, the journey, like just see it as the journey, as I said, you know, living in the world, but not being of the world.

It doesn't mean don't go live your life and don't spread as much love and joy and have the most beautiful amount of compassion for each soul that you come across because you know what, if you run into someone and they are just being the biggest, meanest, just gnarliest person, I used to look at that person and just go, how could you, what's wrong with you? What is wrong with you? Now my first thought is, my word, I can only imagine what they experienced in their life in this journey, in this incarnation. And for me to sit here and pass judgment on them just because they're acting that way, that means that I'm now acting basically no different than they are. No, I want to try and send as much compassion and love towards that person. Now, do I have to go interact with them? No, you don't have to. But thinking that they're bad person or doing anything like that, it serves no purpose whatsoever. It certainly isn't helping them.

And if there is a way that you can physically or in some way show them love and compassion, it may profoundly affect them. But I assure you, it's not gonna do them any good to react and yell at them or treat them poorly in return. And so, and again, you don't have any idea what their journey has looked or felt like, what kind of abuses they've experienced or what kind of just incredibly difficult things that they've gone through. So...

DJ Trayhan (46:13.422)
I see that now, I feel that now, but I know I've only been able to come to that place because I myself have gone within and I've started to be able to feel my pain, my hurt, my things. And we just took a trip to Mexico and I wanna say this because it was my most profound breakthrough from an emotional standpoint. I don't wanna say that I have a hard heart because I know I don't, but the...the guard or the block that I had put up around my heart and the willingness to be vulnerable and to surrender and let go was a very thick guard, very thick wall. And even though I had done so much work and I've had so many blessings in the past four and a half years, or five years with plant medicine, I hadn't let go yet. And we went down and sat in Mexico with 5-MeO. And to sit with Alfonso, was a life -changing experience. It's always a life -changing experience. But for me, this was one of those aha moments, right? It was one of those like, wow, it was like Ibogaine, you know? But this was an emotional moment for me. You a lot of times you sit with plant medicine and again, you get the feeling and then you go and integrate it and you contemplate it. But if you haven't really felt it, I really believe that it all matters, you know? And for me, I had just had this block and I cried and I wailed and I screamed and I purged and then I wept and then I cried some more. I mean, I think when I came out of the medicine, it was a good 30 to 40 minutes that I just was in the ocean, just crying and screaming and just letting go. And I've never felt energy move through my body and through my heart and through every part of my being like I felt in that time. And, you know, I giggle thinking about it because I just remember like the two times that I was able to like, you know, clear my eyes enough to like see. I looked up and Alfonso was literally sitting on the beach. He's looking across the water almost like almost like in a trance like meditative way. And his head is just kind of nodding like this. And it's just this you can just see the peace and just the presence that he had in the moment. But I also felt his connection and his gratitude for what he, you know, in a sense gave me through the journey because he takes you through the journey. His connection to the medicine is so profound. And he guides you. And it's like, and I could just see the gratitude and the, and the humility and, and just the sheer presence that he had just sitting there.

And he had just the cutest little like kind of smirk on his face. And it was just like, it's that bliss. And I was the one that sat with the medicine and Alfonso is basically experiencing in his own degree, his own way, what I'm experiencing. But for him, it's the joy of seeing another soul. Liberated. Finally feel it, exactly. He knew that I was blocked. He knew. He from the first time you sat down. Yes. Which is so funny because like this is how masterful he is. You kept asking him and he was like, see peace. I see peace. know, it's like he saw, he saw, he was like, but we have more work. Yes. He was, he, this is a true master. He wasn't going to be like, saw this and blah, blah, blah. He's just like, I see peace and we have more work.

And like, he just kept going there. And I don't know at what point he started talking to you about the White House because I missed a few of your journeys. About halfway through, 12 journeys, but like six or seventh journey, he finally told me about the house. And I mean, that like, knowing you and knowing a little bit about your life and your journey, I mean, I was like, there's something huge to this. There's something really, really profound to this house. The house is like, it's your heart. And I also felt like it also tied into a lot of the women in your lineage. I felt like there was this sort of feminine, ancestral loneliness. And I mean, I think a lot of the women in all of our...in our ancestry were extremely lonely. And I think there was something there that you were carrying and it was like you were carrying that on your heart. And it was so interesting that day because I had planned with Philip to come to the beach and meet you guys after your hike. for whatever reason, when we got into the village, all of a sudden I got confused and was like,

No, no, no, no, we have to meet at Alfonso's house. There's no reason why we would go straight to the beach, you know, because that would be disrespectful or like they would meet us here. And I really think like we were not meant to be there for you. You needed to have that like with the masculine, with with just that small core group of people helping like usher that for you. You know, I don't know if you would have been able to let go if the if you know, we were on the beach with you. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. You know, I remember again, the few times that I was able to, you know, kind of gather myself from a perspective of being able to see, you know, clear the tears from my eyes. I remember specifically looking up to see if y 'all were there. And both times I was like, wow, they're, know, my, my thought was like, they're not here. I mean, I wasn't really thinking much, but I just noticed that you weren't there, but it was, it really was quite profound after the fact, thought like, wow, that's so strange that they would have just thought to, know, cause I specifically remember we left the house and it was like, okay, we'll see you at the beach, you know? And so anyways, you know, again, the divine does perfect work perfectly. but, but it was just, yeah, you know, in that moment, I, you know, I'm almost 44 years old and I told, you know, Philippe, and I've told you, I've never been a crier like that block that I've had up around my heart was so, I was just so guarded and I was so scared to feel. And I think like, not consciously, but subconsciously, I knew it, you know, I was aware of it. And I know that I wanted to feel and I wanted to let go, but there was just something that wasn't letting me was like, I have to be strong or if I let go, what will happen? That typical thing about being afraid of stepping into that unknown. For me, feeling that, the feelings that I needed to feel and let go of on a level that deep, it obviously was very frightening for me. So I've had, I've done profound work in my journey in the last five years.

And again, everything happens perfectly. And for it all to kind of unfold the way it did on the beach there, was truly, as you said, it was a masterful moment for me. was truly a blessing of grace that I can't even fathom because love, in my opinion, is all there is. I know this in my mind, and I believe this in my mind, I should say. And again, this is my personal perception of what the journey is. know, anything that separates us from that love is where the work is. And for me, it was very much about feeling and letting go. And I was aware of it, but obviously I just couldn't quite let go. I didn't know how. And I tell you what, right now, as we're sitting here having this conversation, all I know is I felt that feeling.

I didn't know what I was letting go of. A lot of times people talk about when they let go, they're very aware of what they're letting go because they're very aware of a physical trauma or whatever that crunchy feeling is that's coming up for them. So they're very aware of it. Or if you just happen to spontaneously cry and you know it's because you're feeling a certain way, the beauty of that moment for me was it felt like lifetimes worth of energy and separation and darkness or whatever it was that was just pouring out of me. And so my gratitude was that I didn't need to know. I was actually just feeling it and letting the feeling come. And my mind was completely shut down and I wasn't trying to think about anything. I was just in that moment letting it happen. And that's why it was so profound and it was so beautiful for me because my mind wasn't trying to identify.

DJTrayhan (55:35.382)
And that's why that's where the gratitude for the most gratitude comes from me was not only that I was able to finally let go and surrender and release, but that my mind wasn't trying to write a story about it. I was just feeling. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's so amazing. I think it's profound that, you know, we were offered the water ceremonies because, you know, because of, think it being a small group and the water is emotion. So cleansing.

And yeah, and so the, you know, being surrounded in the water, being held, like, I couldn't think of like a better sort of way to experience that medicine and be able to let go and to get into, you know, feeling. And I just, feel at this time, we really need to support the men. you know, men and women have both been like hurt by the patriarchy. And, but I really feel that men need support deeply right now. It's like just always having to have it together and you know, not being able to be vulnerable. mean, women have their own level of not being able to be vulnerable too, but because of our moons and our cycles and you know, it's like emotionality is a little more accepted and the waves and you know, it's like for a man, it's like

To be vulnerable is, you know, it can equate to like death and very much like deeply subconsciously, even if it's not like in this life, you know, there's still that like that deep subconscious run line that's running through, I believe that's like vulnerability equals death. Or just like a disconnect from the masculine when in essence, you're not honoring the duality of things. I wasn't able to honor the fact that even though I'm a man, I am both masculine and feminine. Exactly. Of course, so they both to me, if balanced out properly. If a man is willing to be vulnerable and experience those feelings, what he's actually doing is he's honoring that feminine inside of him where

DJ Trayhan (57:54.782)
if he has a partner or when he is with a feminine energy, a woman, she's going to feel his connection on that, that he is more deeply connected and vulnerable. And in essence, it's going to what? Open her up because she's going to know that he's not blocked and very guarded and very abrasive, right? mean, that sweetness that comes in with the vulnerability when...went around a woman allows her to open herself up more and trust and have that deeper connection with the masculine. And of course, for a woman, it's the same thing, right? How is the masculine side of the woman would, in my opinion, be the side that allows herself to go, I am safe, I am held, I am okay.

I can let my guard down, so to speak, because I feel this presence that just doesn't make me feel like I have to throw up my caution flags here and be constantly, you know, take a step back and feel like I'm possibly in an unsafe place. And so again, everything works beautifully together in that way. I just wasn't, you know, I don't think that I was ever necessarily unsafe in that way, but I just wasn't connected.

I didn't allow myself to feel. And I mean, took me, like I said, I'm almost 44 years old and I finally let go. And I know I have a lot more letting go to do. mean, it wasn't like that was my Nirvana moment or anything. No, this was just a beautiful moment of finally, like as I say, like, you know, if you wanna call it stages in your journey through each incarnation. You know, this was just a huge shifting point for me, a huge point in my journey where now as I'm moving forward, I can only hope and I believe with all my heart that I'm going to be able to surrender more deeply when I need to instead of wanting to and not being able to or being aware of it, but yet not being able to understand or feel or let go and express myself in those ways.

DJ Trayhan (59:59.042)
You know, I truly want to be able to express myself in those ways because I know not only is it healthy for me, it's healthy for everyone in my life, from my family to my friends to a random person that I'm talking to or passing by. Because if I can become more that, then that means that my light is brighter and I'm showing up as a better soul for humanity, not just for myself. Absolutely. I think it's interesting too. There's like,

You know, there's a set point now. It's like, you know, you're talking about your, know, from being in ayahuasca to like going to Ibogaine and the first cup, you know, with ayahuasca was like, now there's a, an emotional set point, you know, of like, okay, I've been there. I've, I've now know what it feels like to, to release and to feel into the body. Okay. So this is, this is much less terrifying. I know the container of what this can look like and feel like. And now there's a language. Yes. So yes, I agree. You're 100 % correct. And what I hear you saying there to me is basically until we actually experience something, it's just a thought or an idea or a perception maybe.

But when you actually experience it, whether it is actually physically sitting with a plant medicine or emotionally feeling what needs to be felt, then you can actually, now you can integrate it into your life. Because if I just talk to you about what plant medicine is, but you have never sat with it and you have no plans to sit with it, well, then you're just hearing my words and you can just think up an idea of what it might.

be like. And of course that's ridiculous because as you know, each of our souls, when we sit with the medicine, we ourselves are receiving what we need. So my experience and your experience are obviously going to be sovereign to each of us. So, you know, you and I could sit there and smoke the same amount of five MEO and we are absolutely going to have completely different journeys and come back with completely different perceptions and ideas and things to contemplate. And so what, you know, people can sit around the campfire and talk about it till the cows come home until you actually sit with it or eat that food or go on that hike to see that waterfall. You know, seeing a picture of the waterfall never does justice to going and in front of it and experiencing this, this, this, this real experience. So, you know, like I said, it's, it's, you know, the journey that for me, finally felt it. finally experienced it. And I think to some degree, I I had, but I had never been able to really deeply feel it. And that's what that was for me. I finally surrendered and let go in that moment. And everything to that moment, everything before had gotten you there. So, we could talk forever. This is so, so fun. I'll have to have you on again.

Thank you so much. We're at like a little over an hour, so I think that's a good place to stop. Well, I enjoyed it. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. And I'll see you maybe in a couple of weeks. Yeah, it looks like a couple of weeks for sure. Yeah. All right. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Thank you. You're welcome.